Tomorrow’s interview can be watched or heard at the following links:

https://youtu.be/NTwiKfYO6GM  –  The link to the youtube video.where one can watch the video version.
https://mormonismlive.org/ – The website where the audio only version will be published the day after the live interview

The interview will begin at 6:20 pm Mountain Time. It is scheduled to go for an hour, and then I’m told there will be some questions from the audience (although I’m not clear on how that will work).

There will be a Spring Conference from March 25-27 in Kentucky. The conference now has a website up at this link: Hear and Trust the Lord in the Storm

I’ve been invited to speak and look forward to attending. Part of the conference will focus on Christians in that area, and part will focus on those who already believe in the restoration.

A friend of mine does a podcast as “Radio Free Mormon” or RFM. He also does a Wednesday evening show/interview on YouTube with the title “Mormonism Live.” That YouTube show is hosted by both him and Bill Reel. RFM has often asked me to come on the show and I’ve repeatedly refused…until 10 days ago. I agreed to put an announcement up on my website beforehand.

The interview will be on the Wednesday evening prior to Thanksgiving. It will be on the Mormonism Live YouTube channel, and will begin at 6:20. I will put a link up beforehand for anyone interested in listening or watching it.

We’ve agreed that we won’t talk about polygamy. RFM thinks it is too big a subject to cover in an hour-long interview. And I think it is too boring a subject to re-plough again.

We also exchanged views about discussing the subject of ‘seeing Christ.’ I explained that profound religious experiences are sometimes important to discuss. But when Joseph Smith retold an event and either added a detail, or omitted a point, the differences in retelling became the basis for a great deal of criticism, even skepticism for others.

When I have had an encounter beyond the veil, I have recorded it in my journal. The account was contemporaneous, and reduced to a finite account that could not grow like a fish story with the retelling. Also, it was a reliable record for me to use when (and if) the experience was made public.

I have taken excerpts from my journal and made them public. The committee who assembled the new scriptures thought some of those had enough merit to justify including the accounts in the new scriptures. They proposed adding several accounts to the new scriptures and a conference approved doing so. The accounts in the new scriptures can be read at these places in the new volume titled “Teachings and Commandments”:
T&C 160: https://scriptures.info/scriptures/tc/section/160
T&C 161: https://scriptures.info/scriptures/tc/section/161
There are also other materials, visions or revelations in the T&C that are mine, but I think these are the two that would be directly responsive to questions about seeing Christ.

It has been my experience that a certain kind of superficial personality gravitates to claims of the fantastical and supernal. They are, for lack of a better term, sign-seekers. They are drawn to those who tell otherworldly experiences, and are quite fickle in their beliefs. They are easily led, and therefore easily led astray. These superficial folks often display a great deal of enthusiasm, and draw unwanted attention by their attendance at gatherings. I’m not altogether sure about the mental stability of the sign-seekers, but I do know that when great religious claims are made some of the very first attracted to the claimants include these sign-seekers.

I’ve had enough of them to last a lifetime. I don’t want to attract yet more from the Mormonism Live audience. So while I am willing to reference these two sources that people can read and reflect on in their privacy, I will be leaving it at that.

When teaching about something profound, I try to always use scripture as the primary content, and to not resort to adding something from personal experience unless absolutely required to do so. The things of God are of deep import, and careful, ponderous, solemn thought is required. After all angels only show themselves “unto them of strong faith and a firm mind in every form of godliness.” (Moroni 7:30)

I have also noted a number of religious pretenders who are not concerned with elevating others by what they teach. They are instead interested in attracting followers by the claims they make, like Carnival barkers inviting people to throw baseballs, rings or darts. Instead of stuffed animals and cheap pocket knives, they offer salvation. For a fee. Always for a fee.

I try to leave people better off, more well informed, more deeply connected with God and interested in studying scripture and searching for truth themselves. I want other people to connect with God. It troubles me when people want to instead form an attachment to me, as if following me were enough of a religious experience for them.

Also, giving new details about things beyond the veil supplies the pretenders and charlatans with new things to imitate or claim. There are others who scour what I have taught and then mimic, without attribution, to try to gather a following or bolster their spiritual pretensions. It is inevitable, I suppose. But I try to dial it down, and focus on things that will help other people connect to God for themselves. That is what improves lives, improves marriages and improves families. And I take nothing as compensation, always losing money for the cause.

People who are capable of solemn reflection take a much longer time to consider a matter before deciding. I have met some very impressive people who believe as I do. These include some of the best of the LDS who have left that organization in search of something more. These people were among the best and brightest in the LDS organization, when they worshiped there. Associating with them elevates me, and others, who share their company. These people have been rebaptized and joined in the chorus of those who believe God is up to something now. They have not only added, but have taken the initiative to accomplish a great number of things. Books have been written, conferences have been organized, video presentations have been prepared, and profound teaching has taken place.

There is so much left to be done that there is no reason to stop and ask for praise or to be noticed for what has been accomplished at this point. Right now there are glaring things missing from the restoration: Where is Zion? What is the “fullness of the priesthood” God mentioned to Joseph in January 1841 and how/when will it return? And many other incomplete teachings, ordinances and events that belong to the last dispensation. I’m working on it. I’m a long way short of accomplishing much as yet.

Not sure if the interview will be worth watching. But if anyone is interested, I will put up a link beforehand.

Joseph Smith remarked to a crowd in Nauvoo that, “You don’t know me; you never knew my heart. No man knows my history. I cannot tell it: I shall never undertake it. I don’t blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself. I never did harm any man since I was born in the world. My voice is always for peace.” He said this in April 1844, two months before he was killed.

Those there DIDN’T know him. Nor do I think the Latter-day Saints today know him either. There are more lies, misrepresentations and false accusations made about him today than the many falsehoods spread about him while he lived.

Joseph presented a unique opportunity for believers to accomplish something great. But to accomplish those great things necessarily required people who would give heed to the message. In January 1841 the Lord spoke through Joseph to give a final opportunity to realize the great culmination of the restoration. But that would be dependent upon whether “my people will hearken unto my voice and unto the voice of my servants whom I have appointed to lead my people[.]” T&C 141:13

The Lord’s voice spoke through Joseph (who delivered this revelation). And that revelation appointed Hyrum Smith to be the first, to stand at the head and hold the sealing power or Holy Spirit of Promise: “First, I give unto you Hyrum Smith to be a patriarch unto you, to hold the sealing blessings of my church, even the Holy Spirit of Promise whereby you are sealed up unto the day of redemption, that you may not fall, notwithstanding the hour of temptation that may come upon you.” T&C 141:41

Second, Joseph Smith was to stand as the presiding elder over the church: “I give unto you my servant Joseph to be a presiding elder over all my church, to be a translator, a revelator, a seer, and prophet.” T&C 141:42

These January 1841 appointments of Hyrum and Joseph were made to identify for the Nauvoo people the “servants whom [the Lord] appointed to lead [His] people.” But 27 months later in a conference held in April 1843, Hyrum was required to condemn the stealing and counterfeit money printing going on in Nauvoo. “(They say) They have a right to steal from any man who is not a member of the Church if they consecrate 2/3 of it. They are also making Bogus money.” JSP, Documents Vol. 12, p. 161. Joseph followed Hyrum’s talk and added his own condemnation. Joseph said, speaking for the Presidency, that “such things have never been tolerated, I despise a thief above ground. because I would know that he would be a detriment to my cause and would steal my horse when I wanted to run away. It has been said that some was afraid to disclose what they know of these secret combinations[.]” Id., p. 162.

Of what use was it to the people of that day to have a living Patriarch embodying the Holy Spirit of Promise, if they were thieves? The only message a prophet could deliver to such a group was to denounce their dishonesty. Why speak of heavenly things to people who were unable to live honorably and honestly with one another?

The greatest opportunity offered mankind in two millennia was squandered by people the Lord has called “fools.” They continue to squander what the Lord offered through Hyrum and Joseph. They pretend to be equals, when they are nothing of the sort. The Lord explained to Joseph that, “The ends of the earth shall inquire after your name, and fools shall have you in derision, and hell shall rage against you, while the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under your hand. And your people shall never be turned against you by the testimony of traitors, and although their influence shall cast you into trouble, and into bars and walls, you shall be had in honor. And but for a small moment, and your voice shall be more terrible in the midst of your enemies than the fierce lion, because of your righteousness, and your God shall stand by you for ever and ever.”

It is still that way. Reading the Joseph Smith Papers publication by the LDS Church Historian’s Office reminds me over and over of how they hold him in derision still. Joseph continually reminds people to be virtuous, honest, moral and upright. He denounces immorality, dishonesty, and hypocrisy. “it is against my principles to act the part of a hypocrite, or to dissemble in any wise whatever, with any man.” JSP Documents Vol. 12, p. 114. But the LDS Church Historian’s Office continually accuses Joseph of hypocrisy, lying, deceiving, and acting the two-faced deceiver. That is their official narrative.

I could not admire, much less follow, an adulterous man as the LDS Church claims to do. At Joseph’s request, Hyrum wrote a letter to the entire church condemning what would later be proclaimed as a principle of salvation for Latter-day Saints: “Behold, this is a wicked generation, full of lyings, and deceit, and craftiness, and the children of the wicked are wiser than the children of light, i.e., they are more crafty, and it seems that it has been the case in all ages of the world. And the man, when he leaves his wife and travels to a foreign nation, while on his way, darkness overpowers his mind, and Satan deceives him and flatters him with the graces of the harlot, and before he is aware, he is disgraced for ever. And greater is the danger for the woman that leaves her husband. And there are several instances where women have left their husbands and come to this place, and in a few weeks or months they have found themselves new husbands and they are living in adultery, and we are obliged to cut them off from the church. There are men also that are guilty of the same crime, as we are credibly informed, we are knowing to their having taken wives here, and are credibly informed that they have wives in England.” T&C 149:4

One of those adulterous men mentioned in this letter was apparently Brigham Young. But once Brigham Young gained control over the church, he secured a chorus of voices to falsely accuse Joseph and make both him and Hyrum hypocrites and deceivers.

If no one else will proclaim it then I will: Joseph and Hyrum were virtuous men. And unless you are virtuous also you will be condemned by God for your wickedness. “For I, the Lord, cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven, and he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received. For my spirit shall not always strive with man, says the Lord of Hosts.” T&C 54:5

The reason gross darkness now flows continually from the LDS Church, Fundamentalist mormons, and the many pretenders claiming to be strong and mighty is because they only seek their own vain ambitions. They undertake to cover their sins rather than to confess them. They gratify their pride, and vain ambition, by claiming they are great in God’s eyes, when they are nothing of the sort. They want to exercise control, or dominion, or compulsion, upon the souls of the children of men to further their unrighteous purposes. And therefore we can behold from their words and deeds that the Heavens have withdrawn themselves, the spirit of the Lord is grieved with them, and their pretensions to priesthood or authority have evaporated. They offer conceit and flattery, not light.

Joseph offered humility, light and truth. Hyrum was a moral man of unquestioned integrity. The LDS Church Historian’s office shamefully throws mud at both these men to uphold the wickedness of those who got control after their murders.

I know of no way to make this matter clearer than to express my contempt of those who hold Joseph and Hyrum in derision. None of their wealth or status will excuse them before God for these terrible falsehoods and false accusations. Clearly, like their ancestors, they don’t know Joseph. They never knew him.

I have been meeting with a group working on preparedness for over a year. Their work has accomplished enough that a website has been launched. Their website is standindependent.com Below is an announcement from that committee with links to the new website. A Fall conference is being organized for next year in which more will be addressed about the need to prepare to help one another achieve independence from the larger failing society. What appears below was written by the committee, and their names appear at the end:

A work for Zion has begun.

Several months ago, a handful of families in the movement felt inspired to begin an effort to lay up stores against a coming time of want and need. A work group from among interested parties was formed and work was begun to consider questions related to the issue of providing for our families through coming circumstances we may face as the Lord brings His Zion.  A growing number of families have begun the necessary labor to provide for our families against a fast approaching “troubling season,” (T&C 158:12), and what may follow as the Lord moves forward His work to bring His Zion. 

We invite every person and family in this movement to join in the labor for Zion now by laying up stores to provide for your family against coming seasons of want and need. 

“God cannot produce Zion for, or with, people who refuse to labor. Because  His promise is for the results of the labor and nothing else. As far as I know, none of us, and certainly I, cannot provide for everyone. But, I can provide for my own family. And each of you should labor to do the same” (Equality – Denver Snuffer – Challis Idaho Transcript pg. 13 of 20).

We are to Labor to Provide for our Families.  

We are required to provide for our families now in the present. Looking forward, we will need to provide for our families in a “troubling season now fast approaching” (T&C 158:12) and beyond.

Note: Four years have elapsed since the Lord gave us this instruction (T&C 158:12). You might ask yourselves, what have we done in four years to prepare for a troubling season? 

We will need to provide for our families during an undefined length of time following a gathering by the Lord in which our entire efforts and labors may be required to be devoted to subduing and working the earth until she yields sufficient for our needs (For guidance see Equality – Denver Snuffer – Challis Idaho transcript page 10 of 20).

God, in His mercy, is giving us this current season of relative peace, abundance, and prosperity.  He is making it possible for us to provide for our families now, and during a fast approaching ‘troubling season’ and beyond as the Lord brings forth His Zion (For guidance see Equality – Denver Snuffer – Challis Idaho Transcript pages 9-10 of 20).

Many are anxiously engaged preparing to provide for our families’ and fellowships’ coming needs. We invite you to join the work for Zion by beginning your own labor to provide for your family against a coming day of want now fast approaching (T&C 158:12).

What is the Suggested Plan?

Above all things we desire to receive and exactly follow the will and desires of the Lord for us. This must be His work, done at His direction. We desire above all things that He be our guide. 

Individuals and Families 

1. Determine your families’ needs.

2. Determine what you already have.

3. Prioritize your families’ needs.

4. Lay out a plan to acquire your families’ needs.

5. Begin to produce, acquire, and lay up stores.

Fellowships

1. Counsel together with fellowship members to inspire, encourage, and help them identify family needs and begin to lay up stores.

2. Work together as mutually agreed among fellowship to meet the needs of fellowship members.

3. Review carefully, and prayerfully follow all revealed words of the Lord concerning wise and required use and application of limited temporal resources. (For Guidance see Equality – Denver Snuffer – Challis Idaho Transcript pg. 13-15)

Storehouse Work Group

1. Provide knowledge and resources to assist families and fellowships to identify and meet storage needs.
2. Gather knowledge and resources to build and maintain a central web site that individuals, families, and fellowships may use to help meet their storage needs.
3. Recommend contact between individuals, families, and fellowships with specific resources and storage skills and those searching for those specific resources or skills.
4. Create, manage, and update, a central information exchange hub for “great deals” and storage opportunities (Website “Specials” page).
5. Provide a “Wants / Available” listing page on the web site for items individuals or families may be seeking, or willing to sell or give away.

If you would like to know more, please visit the website Stand independent.com for resources we have gathered to assist your family and fellowship in your efforts to prepare.

The website  Stand independent.com is a work in progress that will be evolving and changing as we go along. We invite you to share your expertise, ideas, and experiences related to storage topics that may assist all others in their storage efforts.  Your stories, ideas, suggestions and other content will be appreciated.

Please contact us at standindependentnow@gmail.com with ideas, experiences, stories, and other suggestions for content to be added to the website. The storehouse work group will determine together by common consent vote all content to be added to the website Stand independent.com  

The storehouse work group: Nephi and Kim Barlow, Evan and Karen Bennett, Terry and Mellody Fausett, Jim and Angela O’Rullian, McKay Platt, Jon and Tina Saunders, Kimberly and Mike Thompson, Steve and Linda VanLeer, Shalyce Woodard

The funeral for John Pratt will be held at the Wasatch Lawn Memorial Park and Mortuary, located at 3401 S. Highland Drive, Millcreek, UT 84106, on Sunday October 17, with the viewing at 12:30 and funeral beginning at 2 pm.

An obituary will be posted at the Wasatch Lawn Memorial Park and Mortuary website soon, and will contain a link to allow those interested to participate over the Internet. The Website is linked here: Wasatch Lawn

Our good friend John Pratt passed away and so we have lost another inquisitive and active mind. His work on calendars and tracking the various ways of determining scriptural events has been interesting and edifying.

I last spoke with John in Challis, and exchanged emails with him recently. He seemed so indestructible that I thought he would be with us for yet a long time. I will miss his ever-cheerful presence.

We nearly lost him a few years ago, but he returned to vigor after a serious infection. His recovery then was the result of faith, prayers and blessings. But we don’t get to keep anyone forever in this phase.

He will certainly be missed.

The final video, part 7, of the third series is now up and available to view at this link: Part 7: The Heavens are Open Again.

This is actually the 7th of the third series, or the 21st video. It is intended to let people know where we are presently in the Restoration. Although it is likely many people will be unaware of these videos, it is only necessary that the words be spoken to complete the Lord’s obligations to the world. How, or even whether, the world responds is not as important as the Lord having the message delivered and available.

I could not have completed these without the assistance of others. I want to thank all those involved, even though they remain nameless. I do appreciate very much the efforts, labors and sacrifices of others. They are certainly known to the Lord.

We lost Bret Corbridge after his difficult struggle with pneumonia. He was a gentle soul, a man of strong convictions, a ready volunteer and an energetic and productive laborer in the cause of truth. He just finished a multi-volume draft of a collection summarizing teachings over nearly a decade. One of his last acts was to pass the draft along to me for review.

He leaves behind a devoted wife and children who will need our support and sympathy. I was able to speak with him several times before they put him on a ventilator and he was ready and willing to leave this earth. I encouraged him to stay, but certainly understand the sentiment he had about passing. The one thing holding him here was his devotion to his family and concern for them. In the end, his prognosis for being disabled and needing continuing care tipped the scale. He did not want to become a burden for anyone else, and in particular a burden for his family. He apparently concluded that it was his duty in caring for his family, to not become their burden. His passing was peaceful, but nevertheless heart-wrenching for those who loved the man.

Over the years I have had many visits from Bret. He was always a bundle of energy, and eager to do whatever was asked of him. He was passionate about serving the Lord, and we shall hardly find another of like temperament and commitment. Christ has welcomed a true friend and we have lost a faithful compatriot.

His passing should remind us all that we are frail, and will only be here for a short time. Even if we live a long life, we are here but for a moment. There is every reason to live nobly, choosing to obey the Lord and cherish His gospel, so we may depart this world with a life that testifies (as Bret’s life has) of our faith in the Lord.

A “GoFundMe” account has been set up. Here is a link: Bret Corbridge Funeral/Family Fund

There are only a few remaining sets of the first printing of the Restoration Edition of scriptures in leather-bound, 100% cotton pages. I was at Benchmark Books in Salt Lake City today, and I noticed that they have about a half-dozen sets available for sale. If anyone is interested in obtaining a set from them, their address is: Benchmark Books, 3269 South Main Street–Suite 250, SLC UT 84115. Phone number (801) 486-3111

Last Sunday I gave a talk in Challis, Idaho. A link to that talk is provided below:

Equality Talk at Challis

My talk is just under an hour-and-a-half, and following my remarks two young people, an older brother and younger sister, also make a few remarks. They are from Turkmenistan and give an interesting account of their life’s journey.

What you see happening in the world are the birth pains of a new kingdom. The heavens are God’s throne and the earth is His footstool. To paraphrase RE Isaiah 25:2:

“Hear the word of the Lord, you that tremble at his word: Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name’s sake, said, Let the Lord be glorified. But He shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the Lord that renders recompense to his enemies. Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a son. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Shall I bring to the birth and not cause to bring forth? — says the Lord. Shall I cause to bring forth and shut the womb? — says your God. Rejoice with His covenant people and be glad with her, all you that love her; rejoice for joy with her, all you that mourn for her, that you may suck and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that you may milk out and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. For thus says the Lord: Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the gentiles like a flowing stream.”

And to paraphrase Revelation 4:1: “And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth: a woman, clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And the woman, being with child, cried, travailing in birth and pained to be delivered. And she brought forth a male child, a new order of things, who was to rule all nations with the words of God given unto them, even a rod of iron; and her child was in contact with God and his throne.”

And again, “for the Devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time” Id., at 5.

These upheavals in the world are the tantrums of a dying influence from a desperate adversary who knows God has begun to establish His rule and bring again His kingdom. He whose right it is to rule, for He created this world, has and is taking steps to exercise His right. All the foolish, vain and corrupt systems that oppose Him are doomed. As the Lord has put it: “And thus with the sword and by bloodshed, the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn. And with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed has made a full end of all nations[.]” T&C 85:3

These things are necessary. But, as the Lord has promised in a covenant (and God cannot lie when He establishes His word by covenant-LoF 3:16, 22, 38; Titus 1:1; Ether 1:12), “And I, the Lord your God, will be with you and will never forsake you, and I will lead you in the path which will bring peace to you in the troubling season now fast approaching.
“I will raise you up and protect you, abide with you, and gather you in due time, and this shall be a land of promise to you as your inheritance from me.
“The earth will yield its increase, and you will flourish upon the mountains and upon the hills, and the wicked will not come against you because the fear of the Lord will be with you.
I will visit my house, which the remnant of my people shall build, and I will dwell therein, to be among you, and no one will need to say, Know ye the Lord, for you all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
“I will teach you things that have been hidden from the foundation of the world and your understanding will reach unto Heaven.
“And you shall be called the children of the Most High God, and I will preserve you against the harvest.
And the angels sent to harvest the world will gather the wicked into bundles to be burned, but will pass over you as my peculiar treasure.” T&C 158:12-18

Our challenge is to keep the covenant we have been given so these promises can be vindicated. We have every reason to be of good cheer. The final words in the Answer to the Prayer for Covenant are: “Be comforted, be of good cheer, rejoice, and look up, for I am with you who remember me, and all those who watch for me, always, even unto the end. Amen.” T&C 157:66 We have a front row seat for the most amazing moments in history.

When Jehovah chose Israel as His peculiar people, it did not immediately elevate them. Israel apparently assumed that being His “chosen people” automatically conferred righteousness upon them, instead of recognizing that He was about to rework them into something much better. Jeremiah was taught how the “chosen people” were regarded by the Lord: “Then I went down to the potter’s house, and behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter, so he made it again, another vessel as seemed good to the potter to make it. Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? — says the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. At what moment I shall speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up and to pull down and to destroy it, if that nation against whom I have pronounced turn from their evil, I will withhold the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what moment I shall speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, if it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will withhold the good with which I said I would benefit them.” (RE Jer. 8:1)

Unfortunately, throughout the Old Covenants from the death of Jacob (Israel) until the time of Jesus Christ, what distinguished Israel most was their prophets constant call for repentance and misfortune. Instead of allowing Jehovah to remove the occupants of the land, they engaged in continual warfare. Choices brought consequences.

Israel received promises when they were rescued from Egyptian slavery: “And it shall come to pass, if you shall listen diligently unto the voice of the Lord your God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command you this day, that the Lord your God will set you on high, above all nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come on you, and overtake you, if you shall listen unto the voice of the Lord your God. Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your ground, and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your cattle and the flocks of your sheep. Blessed shall be your basket and your store. Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.
“The Lord shall cause your enemies that rise up against you to be smitten before your face. They shall come out against you one way, and flee before you seven ways. The Lord shall command the blessing upon you in your storehouses, and in all that you set your hand unto, and he shall bless you in the land which the Lord your God gives you. The Lord shall establish you a holy people unto himself, as he has sworn unto you, if you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in his ways. And all people of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. And the Lord shall make you plenteous in goods, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground, in the land which the Lord swore unto your fathers to give you. The Lord shall open unto you his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto your land in his season, and to bless all the work of your hand. And you shall lend unto many nations, and you shall not borrow. And the Lord shall make you the head, and not the tail; and you shall be above only, and you shall not be beneath, if you listen unto the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you this day, to observe and to do them. And you shall not go aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods, to serve them.” (RE Deu. 8:4-5)

But these were conditional promises, predicated on their faithfulness. And they were warned about the consequences of infidelity to God: “But it shall come to pass if you will not listen unto the voice of the Lord your God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command you this day, that all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you. Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field. Cursed shall be your basket and your store. Cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your land, the increase of your cattle and the flocks of your sheep. Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out. The Lord shall send upon you cursing, vexation, and rebuke in all that you set your hand unto in order to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings whereby you have forsaken me. The Lord shall make the pestilence cleave unto you until he has consumed you from off the land to which you go to possess it. The Lord shall smite you with a wasting disease, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue you until you perish. And your heaven that is over your head shall be brass, and the earth that is under you shall be iron. The Lord shall make the rain of your land powder and dust; from heaven shall it come down upon you until you are destroyed.
“The Lord shall cause you to be smitten before your enemies. You shall go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them, and shall be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. And your carcass shall be food unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall frighten them away.” (Id., 6-7)

Ten northern tribes, led by Ephraim, were taken captive and scattered by Assyria. The two southern tribes, led by Judah, were taken captive by Babylon, with only a remnant of them returning to rebuild the temple. The overwhelming majority of the Lord’s “chosen people” chose to be disobedient, and were scattered and lost to history. The animosity of Ephraim and Judah caused the division, and distracted them from worship and obedience to Jehovah.

But Jehovah descended to sacrifice Himself to ransom Israel. He has promised to regather the remnants from everywhere they have been disbursed: “Fear not, for I am with you. I will bring your seed from the east and gather you from the west; I will say to the north, Give up — and to the south, Keep not back. Bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth, even everyone that is called by my name; for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him, yea, I have made him.” (RE Isa. 15:11)

Jehovah has planned to remove the animosity between Ephraim and Judah in the end: “And it shall come to pass in that day that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people which shall be left from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah, from the four corners of the earth. The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off. Ephraim shall not envy Judah and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.” (Isa. 5:5)

In 2017 Jesus Christ spoke of His current work to fulfill those ancient promises. He has declared to us: “And all the outcasts of Israel will I gather to my house, and the jealousy of Ephraim and Judah will end; Ephraim will not envy Judah and Judah will not provoke Ephraim.” (T&C 157:41)

For this to happen the outcasts will need to understand what their forefathers failed to understand. The Lord expects obedience. He calls His “chosen people” to perform work. The Glossary in the RE Scriptures has an explanation of being a “Chosen people” that is copied below:

“If you go through and read the scriptures about the concept of chosenness, almost always you run into words about forging in a fire the product that God regards as His people, which means that God has a fairly realistic assessment of what people are like, and choosing them doesn’t mean He’s found a finished product. Choosing them means He’s found something with which He’s determined to work. High carbon steel requires iron, and it requires a matrix of that carbon to be within the element. Life — all life — is based on carbon. We breathe oxygen. We are carbon based, all of us. In a very real sense, every breath we take, we take and burn it in our furnace. The way that we convey that oxygen throughout the body is by oxidizing iron in our blood. That’s why our blood cells turn red when exposed to oxygen, because the iron element fused with the oxygen oxidizes, or rusts, and so it looks red. And then, when it drops the oxygen off where it’s going to be consumed in the limbs, it loses that element, and it returns, and it’s blue. Forging us in the fire of affliction, breathing into us the breath of life, talking about being chosen, the example of what it takes in order to fashion something that will withstand and hold an edge, all of these things are types and shadows of what it means to be chosen. Chosenness puts you on display in order for the Lord to either prove what foolishness is in the person chosen, or if they succeed, to put them through an ordeal that demonstrates faithfulness and commitment, desire, and earnestness, so that everyone stands back and says: This people represented God, either by the shabby performance and the persecution and the failure and the folly; or it represents God by the diligence and the effort and the faithfulness…. Within every group of chosen people there are always those who are resilient and faithful enough to pass the test, to hold the edge, to survive when the difficulties come. And when the Lord puts us through the furnace of affliction, our burdens are designed to get us to be able to qualify. Our burdens are designed to make us a little more realistic about our own limitations.”

It remains to be seen how a modern remnant of chosen people will conduct themselves before God. Whether called by the name Jehovah or Jesus Christ, it is clear that being His chosen people risks both blessing and cursing. We cannot impress God, for we can accomplish nothing without Him. But we can obey Him and let Him accomplish something with us.

I got a response on the same subject as the earlier email. It asked this: “How about a “Jehovah and Jesus, part 3”? I loved your justification for lex talionis, and I liked the two global and local parallels, but you’ve made some assertions that aren’t accurate, and ignored a whole body of contradictory evidence. E.g., ancient Israel didn’t just “defend and protect itself,” but waged offensive war, as commanded by Jehovah, to exterminate entire ethnic groups in the promised land (Deut. 20:16–20), and enslave other groups at a distance from the promised land (or kill the men, then take the women, children, livestock, and goods as plunder if the group wouldn’t accept the tribute arrangement) (Deut. 20:10–15). Did the Deuteronomists add this crap, or is this really what Jehovah said to do? And there are many more than “four events in scripture where Jehovah/Jesus directly cause the deaths of significant numbers of people.” You’ve got the Egyptian firstborn (Exo. 11:4–5; 12:29–30), the 3,000 Israelite idolaters killed by Levites at the Lord’s command (Exo. 32:25–29), Korah, Dathan, Abiram, their wives and children and “little ones,” and their 250 co-conspirators, plus 14,700 Israelity who complained about that (Num. 16), and multiple plagues sent upon the Israelites for their errors that are described as killing tens of thousands of them. Then there are additional punitive (not retributive) acts at the individual level like Jehovah killing Er for being “wicked” (Gen. 38:7), killing Onan for the use of coitus interruptus to avoid his Levirate marriage duty (Gen. 38:8–10), killing Uzzah for an apparently well-meaning attempt to prevent the Ark of the Covenant from falling off its cart (2 Sam. 6:1–7), and commanding others to kill the son of an Israelite mother and Egyptian father, who blasphemed (Lev. 24:10–16, 23) and kill a man who gathered wood on the Sabbath (Num. 15:32–36). Anyway, it was a depressing day working through this Old Testament material. I haven’t taken the time to review all of these incidents in the Restoration Edition, but I’m guessing they are largely if not completely similar. If they are accurate representations of God’s dealings then, of course, they are righteous acts. But one can’t help but admit that they don’t sound like the Jesus of the New Testament–who did not condemn an adulteress to death (John 8:1–11), even though as Jehovah he had commanded condemning adulterers to death (Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22). Final thoughts?“

I hadn’t intended to say anything further, but responded to his email as follows:

I wasn’t trying to be exhaustive. Just illustrative.
Ancient tribes were insular and violent. Affiliation with one led to prolonged violence against another. Consider the Talaban of Afghanistan today, as an example of how animosities were held, and violently acted upon. It was unsafe to harbor a refugee or a conquered foreign combatant.
Originally the Lord intended to have Israel occupy the lands of others gradually and peacefully, and He assumed the responsibility to move the other occupants out. He offered to remove them gradually, and without the need of any warfare by Israel:
“But if you shall indeed obey his voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy unto your enemies and an adversary unto your adversaries. For my angel shall go before you and bring you in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, and I will cut them off. You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works, but you shall utterly overthrow them and quite break down their images. And you shall serve the Lord your God, and he shall bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you. There shall nothing cast their young nor be barren in your land. The number of your days I will fulfill. I will send my fear before you, and will destroy all the people to whom you shall come, and I will make all your enemies turn their backs unto you. And I will send hornets before you, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite from before you. I will not drive them out from before you in one year, lest the land become desolate and the beast of the field multiply against you. By little and little I will drive them out from before you, until you be increased and inherit the land.” RE Exo 13:23
But that arrangement required Israel to serve the Lord and not bow down to foreign gods. Israel did not accept the offer, and the cycles of violence that resulted were not what Jehovah offered, but what Israel required.
The biggest problem remains the vantage point of the question. We can hardly relate to the circumstances of primitive, violent cultures and what was required for the survival of Israel. Jehovah was playing the “long game” with them, and took them through the existing circumstances in the only manner possible with that population.
We are headed pretty much back into that same scene of continual violence, unless we change tracks. I read this account of events today in Portland a few minutes before seeing your email: “A large group of Antifa carrying shields and melee weapons attacked a group of Evangelical Christians congregating for a prayer and worship event at the waterfront in downtown Portland, Ore. Video recorded at the scene showed children and families running away as black-clad Antifa militants tore apart the sound equipment and assaulted attendees with pepper spray and projectiles.”

Aside from the necessary direction given to ancient Israel to defend and protect itself from violent and perverse adjoining tribes, there are four events in scripture where Jehovah/Jesus directly cause the deaths of significant numbers of people. Two were (or will be) global. Two were local.

The first of the two global events took place at the time of Noah. In that generation a mass killing happened at Jehovah’s hands. People separated themselves. On the one hand, there was a city of peace and righteousness, called Zion. “the Lord called his people Zion because they were of one heart, and of one mind, and dwelled in righteousness, and there was no poor among them.” (RE Gen. 4:14)

On the other hand, “there were wars and bloodsheds among them,” and “God saw that the wickedness of man had become great in the earth. And every man was lifted up in the imagination of the thoughts of his heart, being only evil continually.” (RE Gen. 4:14; 5:9) Jehovah saved the righteous, and killed the wicked.

The second global event will take place in very similar circumstances and for very similar reasons. That future event will happen at Jesus Christ’s hands. It is described in one section of the T&C as follows: “And with one heart and with one mind gather up your riches that you may purchase an inheritance which shall hereafter be appointed you, and it shall be called the New Jerusalem, a land of peace, a city of refuge, a place of safety for the saints of the Most High God. And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it. And it shall be called Zion.
“And it shall come to pass among the wicked that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety, and there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven, and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another. And it shall be said among the wicked, Let us not go up to battle against Zion, for the inhabitants of Zion are terrible, wherefore we cannot stand. And it shall come to pass that the righteous shall be gathered out from among all nations, and shall come to Zion singing with songs of everlasting joy.” (T&C 31:14-15)

Contemporaneous with this separation there will come destruction of the wicked: “For behold, the day comes that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall be stubble. And the day that comes shall burn them up, says the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings, and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall. And you shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, says the Lord of Hosts.” (Mal. 1:10)

Of the two local destructions, the first was at the hand of Jehovah. “The Lord said unto us, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous, I will destroy them.” (Gen. 7:37) “the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah, for the angels called upon the name of the Lord for brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven. And thus they overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.” (Gen. 7:43)

The second was at the hand of Jesus Christ: “And the city of Zarahemla did take fire; and the city of Moroni did sink into the depths of the sea and the inhabitants thereof were drowned. And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city thereof, there became a great mountain. And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward. But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed because of the tempests, and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the exceeding great quaking of the whole earth.” (3 Ne. 4:2)

Jesus Christ explained why He caused this destruction, “it is because of their iniquity and abominations that they are fallen. Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof. And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned. And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up anymore unto me against them. And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof, to be buried up in the depths of the earth; yea, and the city Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem and the inhabitants thereof. And waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up anymore unto me against them. And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city Gimgimno — all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up anymore unto me against them.” (3 Ne. 4:6)

Jesus Christ then explained that He never wanted any of this to have happened. Instead, He offered a different outcome: Zion. He would have gladly gathered them under His arms, as He had done with Enoch’s people, but they refused to come embrace Him: “O ye people of the house of Israel, how oft have I gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and have nourished you! And again, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, yea, O ye people of the house of Israel who have fallen! Yea, O ye people of the house of Israel, ye that dwell at Jerusalem as ye that have fallen, yea, how oft would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens, and ye would not! O ye house of Israel whom I have spared, how oft will I gather you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings if ye will repent and return unto me with full purpose of heart! But if not, O house of Israel, the places of your dwellings shall become desolate until the time of the fulfilling of the covenant to your fathers.” (3 Ne. 4:9)

Following the destruction, and His explanation for it, Jesus Christ descends to teach the survivors the Sermon at Bountiful (which mirrored the Sermon on the Mount). Destroying the wicked did not make Him any less kind, nor make His teaching any less noble, inspiring and edifying.

As I read the scriptures, and note the choices people make and the response from Jehovah/Jesus, I can see no difference. They both will exalt and welcome the righteous. They both will prevent the despoiling of this creation. They both permit the freedom of choice for mankind. They both enforce the consequences of those free choices. They both put limits on what mankind will be permitted to do when they become depraved and violent. They appear to me to be “one”– or more correctly, to be the same individual, as I read the scriptures.