“…unto the pouring out of the Holy Ghost through me upon the Gentiles, which blessing upon the Gentiles shall make them mighty above all, unto the scattering of my people, O house of Israel. And they shall be a scourge unto the people of this land. Nevertheless, when they shall have received the fullness of my gospel, then if they shall harden their hearts against me I will return their iniquities upon their own heads, saith the Father.”
The reason the gentiles received access to the Holy Ghost was to fulfill the purposes of the Father. The remnant would reject the Gospel, and as a result merit judgment. Judgment would come through the gentiles. For that to occur, the Holy Ghost needed to inspire gentile successes.
The Spirit would be responsible for such great gentile success that they will be made “mighty above all, unto the scattering of my people.” That is, no other people will be able to prevail against the gentiles of North America while the Holy Ghost was with the gentiles. They will be a “scourge” upon the remnant as a result of the Father’s judgments implemented by Christ, using the Holy Ghost.
The Spirit will entitle the gentiles to be offered the fullness. They will qualify by their acts and obedience. When you receive light and stay true to it, you are offered more light. The gentiles will accept and pursue more light, and will merit an opportunity to receive the fullness of the Gospel.
Gentiles did have the fullness of the Gospel, which requires the fullness of the priesthood that was offered while Joseph Smith was here. It was given sometime between 1829 and 1832, and removed before 1841. (See prior post and 132: 45 and D&C 124: 28.)
When the gentiles were offered the fullness, they displayed little interest in it. Joseph remarked: ““I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen.” (DHC 6: 184-185; see also D&C 121: 40.)
When the Saints were given a final opportunity to receive the offered fullness extended to all, they needed to show their willingness to accept it by completing the Nauvoo Temple within a short time. They were given long enough to complete it, and if it was not completed in that appointed time, they would be rejected. (D&C 124: 32.) We have seen how the Saints proceeded to build Nauvoo and their own homes rather than the Nauvoo Temple from 1841 to June, 1844 when Joseph and Hyrum were killed. (See The Remnant Part VII.) When Joseph was taken, the Temple walls had not yet been completed to the second floor.
When the Twelve prayed in the Temple on February 8, 1846 that the Lord would bless the Saints to be able to complete the Temple, the Temple caught fire the next day.
Repairs and further work allowed a dedication to finally take place at the end of April, 1846, nearly two years after Joseph’s death. The dedicatory prayer petitioned the Lord to “take guardianship into Thy hands,” but by September the keys to the Temple doors were handed to a mob which had overrun Nauvoo. It was the position of Elder Hyde that the Saints performed as they were required “by the skin of our teeth,” thereby escaping rejection by the Lord. (This was discussed in The Remnant Part VII.)
The prophecy of Christ, as commanded by the Father, foretells that if the gentiles do reject the fullness, then the Father will “return their iniquities upon their own heads.” Meaning that the gentiles will, by reason of their rejection of what was offered them, merit condemnation for ingratitude. (D&C 88: 33-35.) They remain “filthy still” because that which would have cleansed them was not received in gratitude. It was rejected. When a people reject the Lord, the Lord, being governed by law, must reject them.
This is the reason the coming judgments are necessary. Where much is given (and we were offered everything) then much is expected. (Luke 12: 47-48.) When everything is rejected, then the punishment merited reflects complete rejection of the Lord. You must keep this in mind as you read the judgments Christ prophesies upon the gentiles.
And remember also that no matter what the collective gentile conduct may be (or fail to be), the Lord approaches each of us individually. The Book of Mormon is intended as the final opportunity for gentile salvation. The church is under condemnation for failing to remember its contents and take them seriously. (D&C 84: 54-58.) That scourge needn’t be applied to you, if you will “repent and remember the new covenant” offered to you. There is, for any gentile who will repent and take the covenants offered in the Book of Mormon, an opportunity to yet become associated with the remnant and an heir of the preservation and salvation offered to them.
As we survey the condition of the gentile church today, there seems to be less and less made of the Book of Mormon’s contents. The Correlation Department’s teachings are insubstantial and becoming even less so. However, you have the Book of Mormon in front of you. You don’t need anyone to prepare a manual for you. You have the text itself.
I am hoping what I’ve written, particularly in The Second Comforter
Parley P. Pratt:
…..for the first time, my eyes beheld the ‘BOOK OF MORMON’—that book of books … which was the principal means, in the hands of God, of directing the entire course of my future life.
“I opened it with eagerness, and read its title page. I then read the testimony of several witnesses in relation to the manner of its being found and translated. After this I commenced its contents by course. I read all day; eating was a burden, I had no desire for food; sleep was a burden when the night came, for I preferred reading to sleep.
“As I read, the spirit of the Lord was upon me, and I knew and comprehended that the book was true, as plainly and manifestly as a man comprehends and knows that he exists.”
Gordon B. Hinckley, “A Testimony Vibrant and True,” Ensign, Aug 2005, 2–6
It truly is the “book of books”
Perhaps a silly question. Denver is very well read in scores of material besides just the Book of Mormon. Another blogger who says he/she has received the second comforter talks about taking 20 years to read original manuscripts and materials from the beginning of the church. We all have access to so much information it can be overwhelming. If my study is limited to the scriptures, especially Book of Mormon, and I do my best to observe the things it admonishes me to do, will that alone qualify my to receive the second comforter? Do I have to know the history and make correlations and recall from memory where things are found from a kazillion sources? A simple yes or no will do.
@Anonymous 7:33
No.
Okay…just answered my own question. Said a quick prayer asking that I read something that I need today, and opened “The Second Comforter”…randomly. I read a page which directed me to read D&C 93, which I did and continued reading the book and read…. “getting the fullness is not done by study, or theological courses. It is not the province of the scholar. Nor is it the academic who commands this fullness. It is acquired exclusively by those who are willing to keep the commandments and thereby qualify to receive light and truth as a by-product of following this path….this is the way any son or daughter of God will qualify to be a part of His eternal family. There is no other way. You could spend a lifetime of study and not obtain these things. Generations have already done that.” (It is page 297 for anyone interested in reading more.)So, the necessity of the reading and studying is to learn those things which we are commanded to do.
Thanks, Denver. I get it.
It definately helps to read all the history between man and God… to see the examples, to build the faith and desire to do as they did. Just make sure you are reading about true prophets who spoke to God face to face, if you want to do the same. Doesn’t mean you can’t read other good books too.
So is the fulness of the priesthood still taken from the saints or not? This blog mostly gives every indication that it has not been returned (I’m assuming that that the fire at the temple was a symbol of the Lords rejection and that the keys being handed to the mob was a symbol of either the saint’s rejection or the Lords rejection, plus there’s not revelation saying it was returned) but then there’s the quote from Orson Hyde saying the people preformed as required “by the skin of our teeth.” Is there really any relevance to Orson Hyde’s statement if the fullness of the priesthood was not returned? If I understand earlier blogs, the fullness of the priesthood includes the sealing keys which the patriarchs as well as other prophets had, which includes the power over the elements of the earth as well as priesthood ordinance sealings. It states in the book “Beloved Enos” that the sealing keys are had by the president of the church. Does that include the fullness of the priesthood (because the church kept it by the skin of their teeth) or just portions of the sealing keys and the fullness is still removed despite what Orson Hyde said?
So Denver, your really saying that we started our temple work with zero sealing power? I thought those who received it from Joseph still had it individually… like Brigham, Taylor, BF Johnson and others? Or did they fail to qualify their own passed on sealing power (to obtain C&E made sure) because they thought they had all they need? I mean, even Joseph started temple marriages and endowments in 1842, 2nd anointings (fullness of priesthood) in 1843, and then in 1844 right before his death “shook off” – “all that he had and the rights to build up the kingdom” onto those in his private circle of friends, which included the 12. What about the revelations and dreams by Brigham, Taylor and Woodruff? All these men fought to maintain celestial marriage in it’s fullness. During the 1880’s, there are many revelations wo Woodruff and Taylor saying to never give it up. Why would God tell them to do so if they were quickly losing men holding the sealing power? Or if that power was turned against us totally in 1841? If so many saints were living this order, what does it mean if the plural marriage sealings were invalid?
Does that mean the saints were responsible for the early death of Joseph? -For not building the Nauvoo temple quickly and with the right heart? Couldn’t he have offered another negotiation to the Lord to give us another chance?
What does it mean for us who still offer endless works, even failing to understand those temple ordinances, today?
How much does the church have left? Aaronic order like the Israelites of the past? Do we have any authority to do Mel confirmations after baptism?
In my day, I see so many thinking they have this power carried on since Joseph. In the church and lots of break off groups and families. It feels as if you are explaining why we didn’t maintain it in the church, and also trying to explain why any group that claims to have gotten authority from John Taylor or Ben F Johnson doesn’t have any. If the Lord rejected us and our dead before our work even really started… how can we maintain even the HG? If we don’t have keys for that, how can we do attempt to open the heavens? How can we detect true or false spirits/angels? Your telling us we have quite a bit to obtain from heaven direct… as did the prophets since Samuel. Or even Jethro (before the fullness was even removed from Israel), who was mentor and gave Moses his priesthood that would enable him to see God… even though Jethro was of Midian, a son of Keturah (plural wife to Father Abraham)… totally outside the priesthood leadership and tribal lineage of Jacob/Israel, let alone the levites.
How can we really know anyone who has received C&E/Sealing power from on high? What if some members received it and did bless seal some… only those are valid? What about all the good people who thought they received sealings? Do we still have to get everything on our own no matter what others claim?
What a mess if what your hinting and now outright saying to us is correct. I wish you were wrong. So much work and carnal security with what we have left and are doing. What a sad day when all those who thought they had exaltation in the highest celestial realm, and find out later they don’t. Joseph often stated that many people think they have exaltation, and when they get to the other side they will find their error. It is alot harder than most think… and rightly so. If we have to learn and obtain everything like prophets past, and gods past… we will have to offer up the same sacrifice and love for these heavenly gifts. This is why it’s so frustrating to me, to see so many not understand the seriousness of it all. And even to be rejected in most cases for trying to help others seek for more light. Strange men/women in the land indeed.
Yes John C. I have that very same questions.
I supose in the long run it does not matter, because we still have the opportunity to achieve salvation individually (as Denver has said -it is always individually anyway).
But it certainly would be a very sad revelation to learn that we actually do not have the fullness of the priesthood because of our iniquity.
Anonymous said: “How can we really know anyone who has received C&E/Sealing power from on high? What if some members received it and did bless seal some… only those are valid? What about all the good people who thought they received sealings? Do we still have to get everything on our own no matter what others claim?”
D&C 132:7 says: And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, THAT ARE NOT MADE AND ENTERED INTO AND SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
It sounds like reguardless of whether the fullness of the priesthood is still here, we have to have the holy spriit of promise seal all of our oaths, covenants, etc., to us personally.
As Denver said, as the Lord has to operate within the bounds set for Him, so we had to operate within the bounds the Lord and His Father set for us.
We need Law to be obedient to. But my question is, for those who have further light and knowledge to live up to, how do we live some laws in order to be obedient to them, when we first need power to live them? And we need obedience to get power. Guess first things first, do all to receive the Lord, then that sealing power will be given.
11:01 commenter,
But the power to bless others with those oaths and promises, should be available so the people receiving the promises and then living up to them can receive their holy promise of exaltation. This is why I sought so hard to find mentors who have the sealing power to receive their blessing, and then work on making my own C&E sure to seal those promises upon me and my family. But Joseph received power to seal with his C&E made sure, and began sealing marriages to himself, spoke with angels and Gods, sealed up the colesville branch… but all these sealing promises have to be lived up to by each individual to make them sure. So I guess we can obtain the sealing power and then live things as Joseph did, as the Lord authorizes. Now that sounds like a good sure way… but I don’t want to offend the Lord by not honoring others who may have this authority as well. Joseph said it’s important to know just who has what authority. Tough stuff.
I as well, would like more detail about the Nauvoo Temple information discussed above. I’ve been trying to find info on it since the remnant discussion. W. Woodruff seemed to agree with Orson Hyde that they beat the deadline.
With the deaths of Joseph and Hyrum and the burning of the Temple I can see where they may haven’t met the deadline, but how can we know for sure?
One subtle caveat in the Doctrine Covenants is the definition of a true Ephraimite. One may be declared of the tribe of Ephraim in their patriarchal blessing but still fail to meet the criteria set forth in the Doctrine & Covenants which states:
“For, verily I say that the rebellious are not of the blood of Ephraim, wherefore they shall be plucked out.” (D&C64:36) If therefore a Gentile were not considered “rebellious” (acting contrary to the will of God) perhaps they with Manasseh form the “righteous remnant” of Joseph (JST Genesis 50:24)and will be the Ephraimites who endow the other tribes of Israel when they gather to Zion. (D&C 133:32-34)
Just wondering
frode
The fullness of the Priesthood is not plurality of wives.
Plurality of wives is an appendage to the law of Chastity that operates on the principles of the Law of Consecration.
The Law of Consecration is the fullness of the Priesthood, properly understood and executed, whether within a system of a family order, economic order, or political order. It doesn’t matter. None of those realms are the fullness itself. The principle of the Law of Consecration wherein the strong protect and nurture the weak is the fullness itself. When you give up your life for the good of all, you are worthy of all the Father has.
Now consider this: Are our sacrament meetings welcoming of all visitors, or are strangers more or less shunned until they become members or pressed relentlessly to be members in order to feel comfortable? Is this the Law of Consecration? Have we not lost the fullness even if we do put “Visitors Welcome” on the doors?
By the same token, if you find a congregation where outsiders come and go as they please and learn what they want when they want without becoming members, there you have the talents of the Saints consecrated to the good of all people.
What if the next revealed principle on plurality of wives commissioned all these men espousing virgins to shelter them until the time they could be loosed from the sealing and sealed to their own husbands? What then? Would all the Saints lusting after this practice be worthy of saying they sheltered the unfortunate correctly, with their best interests in mind? What about all the fathers of these daughters…what of their feelings? If a time is needed to raise up seed to the Lord, can you give that seed back to the Lord when he wishes them to go with those mothers and be joined to other husbands as men become worthy to take your place, so all may have one man and one woman like Father Adam and Mother Eve? Is that our goal when we imagine up the return of plurality of wives?
Do we seek to become the strong who dominate the weak, or do we wish to raise up weak men to become worthy of one of the wives in that plurality system? We may do well to learn a thing or two about Levirate marriage and consider the devotion of heart involved in brotherly love.
A man not worthy of celestial marriage is a spiritually dead man. Would we be willing to raise up seed to that spiritually dead man until he becomes spiritually reborn and ready to take on the duties of husband and father to that seed and that wife?
Search your hearts. I have as much repenting to do as the next man in terms of what my heart thinks about these things.
-Brian
The Church is like a marriage. Even if the head has gone astray, the body (even if it’s just one individual)can still keep the Church or marriage alive & valid.
It’s like if a husband broke his covenants, it does not break the marriage. The faithful wife can still hold the marriage together & make it eternal if she keeps her end of the covenant. The husband will one day repent & the marriage will be eternal.
The Church is the same way, if by chance the leadership or even the Prophet went astray that does not make the Church invalid or take power & priesthood & blessings away from individual members.
If we are sealed, baptized, given the Priesthood, by someone who is unworthy, but we are worthy, then the sealing, baptism, & Priesthood, is still good & valid.
Any member can recieve all the revelation & blessings that any Prophet can. We are not dependent on a leaders for our Exaltation, once God has established his authority on earth, as he has, even if it’s handed down unfaithfully. It’s all still valid for those who are righteous.
From what I have read & understand, the Church & Saints had to leave Nauvoo because of unrighteousness & were thus sent out into the wilderness like the Children of Isreal until they repented. Then they could return & build up Zion when they were worthy of it.
“W. Woodruff seemed to agree with Orson Hyde that they beat the deadline. With the deaths of Joseph and Hyrum and the burning of the Temple I can see where they may haven’t met the deadline, but how can we know for sure?”
Why would the founding fathers have called upon W.W. on two consecutive nights in the St. George temple to perform their vicarious ordinances if he lacked valid priesthood authority to perform efficacious ordinances on their behalf? (Cf. JD 12:229)
In other words, we haven’t lost the opportunity to practice the Law of Consecration, only the freedom to do so in certain ways: ie. plurality of wives WHEN the Lord commissions it; economically in many ways; and politically in many ways.
But as some argue that we can’t practice all the Laws of Heaven without these systems, they would of necessity deny the claims of any person here who says they have received the Second Comforter, for doesn’t the Second Comforter come as a result of us living these laws? And if we can’t live these laws today, doesn’t that mean no one can receive the Second Comforter?
So therefore, I don’t believe we must have certain economic orders or family orders to keep those laws, even if they are legitimate helps and governments to keeping those laws when implemented correctly. There have been people who have received the Second Comforter without plurality of wives, the United Order, or the Council of Fifty, has there not?
As for the Church, do they teach the strong to protect and nurture the weak? In some ways yes, in other ways no, so onward to Denver’s comments about it…
Don’t forget the penalty as DS mentioned. Look at others in the past who recieved it for giving up the fullness… Nephites, Jaredites, Israel, those in the days of Noah, – which the last days will be similar to. Think of the penalties that were taken out of our ritual (because we thought they were to gruesome to be in a temple). If we are not redeemed by the 2nd comforter, and it requires the shedding of blood to find redemption… who is left to pay the price? Those who are not redeemed by the blood of the lamb will have to pay for their own sins? If we don’t somehow get the fullness of the priesthood from the Savior direct, we will not merit divine protection when the cleansing (day of redemption) occurs. I think it’s pretty important to make sure each of us are redeemed and help others do the same. Denver has been hinting to what is coming. I think it’s extremely important that we get ourselves in order and help others awaken as much as possible. It feels like the days of Nephi or Noah to me… I see the destruction that has been prophesied coming to my people and nation at one day, and there aren’t many today who want to believe it or prepare. Unfortunately or fortunately, however you see it… the words of the Lord and Father will come to pass. Which side will we be on then? Now? This is serious.
Michael C,
It probably depends on who Woodruff got the sealing keys from. Was it Joseph Smith? Taylor I believe still had the keys from Joseph when he was Pres, as he received the power in his mortal life from a man who conversed with God (Joseph)… but once Taylor passed on (without obtaining C&E made sure), who ever he gave it temporally to while he lived, it goes away. That’s my current thinking anyway. I wish sealing power would pass on no matter what… but I think that each man has to still obtain a fullness from the Lord or His angels for him to be able to pass it along to others, then they have to do the same. We can’t carry the key without the connection with heaven to allow us to pass it on or use it.
Other comments –
We cannot bind anything on earth and in heaven without true sealing power. I cannot seek another person who doesn’t have it, even if I think he does, to seal my family and expect it to be binding later. They have to actually hold the power. So the things we do in the temples… if they are not done with valid power, are types and shadows, practice for a future time when power is granted. We need temples, like the one talked about in Zion to have true power (fulness) in them. Israelites still did their rituals once a yr. They thought they could still enter the holy of holies, a mel portion. And half of our endowment is aaronic, so I think it’s still valid if the individual is just. Zacharius held this authority and was officiating in the temple, low and behold an angel appeared. He held the keys to that. But even if we maintain more than we can, they still teach us some important truths, truths that are found on this blog and in scriptures. I think it’s safe to assume if the Lord says it’s possible that if we reject Him, then he said He would reject us and our work for the dead, it is possible. Luckily, current and future redemption can be made for those who earn it.
Please respond Denver. What do you think or want to relate?
As one of my friends says, “Deseret Priestcraft” rather than Deseret Book.
If you are true and faithful the time will come when you will be called up, chosen and ordained kings and queens, priests and priestesses, whereas now you are only ordained to become such. The realization of these blessings is dependent upon your faithfulness.
Denver,
It is my understanding that the 2nd anointing was still administered in the temple. Is that not making sure one’s calling and election? Since I have no first hand experience with the ordinance, I assume it is done and with proper authority…. ? It also see the possibility that the ordinance could be done outside the temple too.
My present understanding of the FULLNESS of the priesthood, is that (among other things) one having the FULLNESS can choose, call up, ordain kings and queens, priests and priestesses…. and it is sealed in Heaven…. it is made actual….. being sealed to a the dispensation head (JS) or a ‘father’ who is sealed to another patriarch with the FULLNESS…..whereas NOT having the FULLNESS of the priesthood means we are authorized only to ordain one to “become such.”
BTW, I have not yet read two of your books. One of them (Beloved Enos) arrived in the mail today. Perhaps reading it will help me better understand these issues.
So our physical ordinances teach us how to do the real thing. It’s ok to keep doing all that we do without a fullness? Guess all things we do, point to Christ. Baptism doesn’t really wash away sins… just a sign that we want to or will. Holy Ghost only comes when heaven thinks we can have it. Being washed from the sins of our day doesn’t actually wash them away, we have to work on that too. Being anointed to one day become actually called up and anointed K&P or Q&P, also points us to the real event based upon individual efforts. But what about marriage and family sealings? We have to have true sealing power…