A Clarifying Question

I got this email asking for clarifications:

Can you clarify these statements?

Here Denver seems to be saying we can obtain salvation now.

You’re hedging up the way of your own salvation, and of the salvation of others when you say no one has the privilege in our day yet, to lay hold on salvation. You’re hedging up the way, you are damning yourself, and you are damning those who will listen to you when you say, people in our time are not yet authorized to exercise faith in God unto salvation because you are authorized. I have done so. I have spoken with Him as a man speaks to another. He speaks in plain humility, reasoning as one man with another. He will reason with you.”  (40 Years, Faith)

Here he seems to be saying that we can come into the presence of the Lord and by so doing, obtain covenants.

“But in terms of someone whom the Lord has struck a bargain with and made a covenant at the moment we are looking at in 1829, that person was Joseph Smith. Our Lord is a Man of covenants. Our Lord enters into covenants on a regular basis. To know Him is to covenant with Him. And Joseph when section 5 was revealed had one.” (40 Years, Be of Good Cheer, Be of Good Courage)

Sounds like priesthood must be obtained in a previous probation or it cannot be obtained here. If it cannot be obtained in this life unless it was had before, how is it ever had in the first place?

“So here priesthood has its beginning before this world even was organized.  There is a necessary link between those hallowed days and power here. No person has authority here unless it was first obtained there.” (http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2010/06/alma-133.html )

Zion can come to individuals:

“The Lord has been willing to bring individuals back into His presence on the same conditions throughout all time. Read again The Second Comforter if you do not remember what those conditions are. He is as willing to make you a citizen of Zion, member of the church of the Firstborn, and part of the general assembly today (D&C 76: 66-69) as in the future established Zion spoken of in the verses we have been reviewing. Many have done it in times past. Some have done it in our day. All are offered the same opportunity, but always on the same conditions.” (http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2010/07/3-nephi-21-25.html )

Zion can’t come to individuals:

“You may think this can be done in isolation as a faithful individual, but Zion will not be built by solitary souls. Nor will the required covenant be offered to an isolated individual. This is about God’s FAMILY.” (http://denversnuffer.com/2015/03/a-great-whole/)



People are authorized to exercise faith, just as Lectures on Faith explain. That includes coming back to God’s presence here and now. It likewise includes obtaining covenant status with God and the promise of exaltation. All that is true. Many have done this in mortality. All who have done so depart this life firm in the hope of a glorious resurrection. (D&C 138:14.) But do not assume you have a correct picture in your head about what happens between the time of the promise (covenant) and when the day of your exaltation will arrive.

One statement by me or in scripture is not EVERYTHING. Never assume you can reduce it to one, simple picture when you are talking about the landscape of eternity, and endless lives.

(It amuses and frustrates my wife when people assume I have disclosed everything I think, understand or know about a subject when I give a two- or three-hour talk.)

Why did the apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration “look upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies to be a bondage?” (D&C 45:16-17.) [Because going to the Spirit World means a lengthy tenure there, awaiting the resurrection.] Why did John the Beloved (who was among those on the Mount) then ask to “tarry until [Christ] comes in His glory?” (D&C 7:3.) [Because he would rather be here working than in the Spirit World trying to bring people along there.] Why did three Nephites likewise ask that they not “taste of death; but [to] live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men?” (3 Ne. 28:6-8.) [They had the same concern as John.] What were the other nine Nephite disciples really asking when they requested to “speedily come unto [Christ’s kingdom]” instead of either living here or waiting in the Spirit World? [They wanted to rise quickly from the dead and resume the journey as those who had arisen from the dead with Christ.]

These were all men who were in Christ’s presence and had the promise to be exalted. Yet they were either: 1) remaining here without death to minister, or 2) going to what they thought would be “bondage” in the Spirit World to await their eventual resurrection, or 3) dying but then proceeding “speedily” [or immediately] into Christ’s kingdom. Every one of them would be exalted. But that does not change the distance and paths which must be crossed between here in the flesh and rising to exaltation, or the potential choices that can be made.

Likewise, as a living mortal you can have an association with the General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn (a priestly reference that requires you to understand about the “rights of the fathers”) here, now. If you do this you become one of those solitary souls who live as a stranger and sojourner on earth. Your association is with heaven, not with earth. But that does not fulfill the prophecies and covenants regarding Zion. You can have the same kind of life—but if it is your life alone if you live without bringing others with you. You will live without a city, a community, all things in common, no poor among that community, a temple, rites, and the completion of the restoration of all things. You may have a life worthy of Zion, but it will not be a City of Zion, the New Jerusalem. You can be a “citizen” but you will be a sojourner in exile here.

If you want to find out how you get priesthood in the “first place” ask God.

Please keep EVERYTHING in mind together. Do not think one isolated statement or paragraph explains EVERYTHING. Further, do not think everything has yet been revealed that needs to be revealed. Thus far I am only taking the things already before us in scripture and weaving them together to persuade some few to believe the restoration can continue. When the time comes, a great deal more can be taught if the restoration does continue.