1 Nephi 14: 13:
“And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.”
Did you notice that? The whore is also a “mother?” Why is that? What do we learn from that bit of information? Just how loyal will the deceived be to the institution they regard as their great mother? It’s no wonder they react with such hostility at the threat posed by the Lamb of God.
Now did you notice also that the fight is against “the Lamb of God” and not the “Saints?” They are opposed to Christ and are going to fight against Him.
This is akin to David’s response to Goliath: “Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord’s, and he will give you into our hands.” (1 Sam. 17: 45-47.) David knew the fight was between the Lord and Goliath, not between him and Goliath. Therefore the advantage was all the Lord’s.
The coming fight will be between those who regard the worldly order as their mother, and the Lamb of God.
Did you notice also that the great mother whore includes “all the nations of the Gentiles?” Meaning that included among this great false order will be the United States, the greatest of the Gentile nations. We’ve been told in modern revelation that along with all other nations, the United States will be destroyed. (D&C 87: 6.) We disbelieve this and hope to save the nation. We want to follow the counsel of the Lord to make friends of the mammon of unrighteousness, that when we fail we may be received into everlasting habitations. (Luke 16: 9.) Your affiliations here will serve you here, but you will not be trusted with true riches. (Luke 16: 11.) The result is that we have no choice but to flee.
Well, the great whore wants to defeat the Lamb, but she cannot get access to Him. She must settle for destroying His teachings, His doctrines, His ordinances. She will target these truths because they link the Lord to some few who are here. She will at every turn deceive, mislead, corrupt and discourage. She understands that the fight is with the Lord, but to destroy Him she must destroy all that testifies truthfully of Him.
All that is corrupt and corrupted is welcomed by her. All that fails to redeem the souls of men and return them to the Lord’s presence is welcomed here in her dominion. She will confer tax benefits, honors, protection and awards upon those who cannot teach the doctrines that save. Wealth will amass, privileges will be given, and the great whore’s dominion will expand to include “all churches” in these last days. (2 Nephi 28: 12-14.) Persecution is the heritage of the righteous because this world has no part in Christ. (John 14: 30.) When the righteous are no longer persecuted, and the honors and awards of men begin to be bestowed upon any religion, you may know they have made friends of the children of mammon.
She cannot destroy Him, so she will turn her anger upon those who preserve His doctrine, His teachings, His truths and destroy them that He may be cast out of this world. This is her plan.
But this battle is between principalities and dominions involving spiritual wickedness in high places, and not just flesh and blood. (Eph. 6: 12.) Therefore we should fear not, because the battle is, always was, and always will be the Lord’s. (D&C 105: 14.)
It is true that Doug is being called. So are you. Yes, I mean you.
DC 105:14 – How I love the Lord! This verse answered one of my questions. I don’t worry anymore about what to say – I don’t need to say anything, fix anything, correct anything, only as moved upon by the Spirit. I just need to quietly follow, obey and continually repent and let the Lord fix me. Maybe at that point He will want me to say something, maybe not – either way.
Thank you Ic for your DC 105 reference – it speaks peace to me as I read it. It will help in the days ahead as the things Denver is calling to our attention begin to unfold with greater wrath.
There seems to be a connection between Zion whose battles the Lord will fight and the battle that is or will be waged between the Lord and the Great and Abominable Church – which Denver states will include all existing churches that she will have enslaved – including the LDS – ALL must fail that Zion can stand. Denver says it is the LORD she is fighting – so WHERE DO I STAND with the LORD? Am I PURE in HEART so as to come under His shield? What should I do to become Pure in my heart before Him? Snuffer uses this same DC 105:14 promise. My fight – even my concern cannot be the state of the LDS church – I can only choose to seek that of the Firstborn. I pray to understand implement into my life that which Denver is trying to tell us for I believe if I will pay attention to the questions he is asking and study them out it will prepare me to be what Zion is and where Zion is – and THEN I need not fear.
Yes, as prophesied, everyone except a few in the Church have gone astray & become corrupt. It is rare to find someone who really believes in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And yes, even the Saints fight against & persecute the true followers of Christ who really believe in his Gospel, for it seems like foolishness to them & it threatens them. These ‘Church going persecuters’ want everyone to disbelieve the Gospel of the Lamb, so they don’t feel so guilty & so they can continue their delusions of righteousness.
That is a good summary Anonymous! Denver gives us great material to work with – I feel we are missing the meat of what he is saying. I keep looking for some cooperative searching that will lead us to the ONE Church that is true.
This quote from Joseph sums up what I feel in Denver and what I realize is needful for all of us to become ONE with GOD through Jesus Christ in order to endure and win this ‘war’.
“The things of God are of deep import and time and experience and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind O man if thou wilt lead a soul into salvation must search into and contemplate the darkest abyss and the broad expanse of eternity, thou must commune with God.” (DHC Vol. 3, p. 295.)
I feel where he is presently leading us is into that darkest abyss. I have worked on Revelation which is really what Nephi is using up to the point where John picks it up – and it is a dark road that we are going to have to trod. THIS should be our study – the MIND of GOD – to learn how to ‘walk the dark road ahead. A study of Rev. 13 & 17 gives one a good picture of what we face and the choices we must make & the cost of failing to learn about the deceptions that are coming in the midst of great physical trials are the things Nephi was not allowed to finish writing. These Revelation images are what flare up before me when I read Denver’s blogs – this description of the “War” we are going to shortly have to walk through. Lord please help us is my prayer!
But here’s my favorite example:
Elder D. Todd Christofferson spoke about Zion and used a relationship between our time and the early time of the Saints to prove without question we are under worse condemnation than them, and haven’t even started building Zion: “The Savior was critical of some of the early Saints for their “lustful . . . desires” (D&C 101:6; see also D&C 88:121). These were people who lived in a non-television, non-film, non-Internet, non-iPod world. In a world now awash in sexualized images and music, are we free from lustful desires and their attendant evils?” There is the rhetorical question for which our faces bow in shame as a people…the answer is obvious…and then to continue: “Far from pushing the limits of modest dress or indulging in the vicarious immorality of pornography,” He is saying our Conference messages are too low, too vulgar, too base and undeserving of what they should be talking about, which is what he outlines next: “we are to hunger and thirst after righteousness. To come to Zion, it is not enough for you or me to be somewhat less wicked than others. We are to become not only good but holy men and women. Recalling Elder Neal A. Maxwell’s phrase, let us once and for all establish our residence in Zion and give up the summer cottage in Babylon (see Neal A. Maxwell, A Wonderful Flood of Light [1990], 47).” Elder Christofferson’s talk This rousing speech is a request for the Church and it’s people to start to build Zion. Do we treat it as merely an interesting treatise on the subject? If the Church will not listen as a group of people (that conference talk is now almost 2 years behind us), will the Lord find His own way and His own people to do it with? Of course, that will include the few in the Church that did hear, if a majority wasn’t won.
Do these things not knock you off your feet? Or were we chuckling with fat bellies over whatever joke we heard from some other talk in that session? I heard someone say in Sunday School to the question, how do we follow God’s prophets and apostles: “Laugh at their jokes”. That would’ve been a good joke itself (and I love a good joke) if it weren’t for the fact that she was half serious. Is that the impression we want left with our children about the main purposes of our Conferences? Simply entertainment? Too base…too low…to trifling, says Joseph Smith.
Denver, I found this a bit ambiguous, but think I’ve figured it out: You said: “Did you notice also that the great mother whore includes “all the nations of the Gentiles?” Meaning that included among this great false order will be the United States, the greatest of the Gentile nations. We’ve been told in modern revelation that along with all other nations, the United States will be destroyed. (D&C 87: 6.) We disbelieve this and hope to save the nation. We want to follow the counsel of the Lord to make friends of the mammon of unrighteousness, that when we fail we may be received into everlasting habitations. (Luke 16: 9.) Your affiliations here will serve you here, but you will not be trusted with true riches. (Luke 16: 11.) The result is that we have no choice but to flee.”
That would seem to make verse 9 the Lord’s practical council for those of us who find ourselves to be unjust stewards. In the immediate realization of this, we should follow verse 9, but He cautions with verse 10-11 that the strategy should ultimately be discarded because we won’t be trusted with true riches as friends with the mammon of unrighteousness. He is gracious to allow for a grace period, but if we think that is a permanent strategy, we will go to hell with Mammon. We have made friends with the mammon of unrighteousness since the time of Joseph F. Smith. How long will we keep up the public relations campaign? As long as it is here we condemn ourselves as unjust stewards of the Church who have never matured past our grace period.
Is that what you are trying to say?
There may be a correlation to scripture here: In about 1906-1908, it could be said the Church went into captivity into Babylon with the seating of Senator Reed Smoot and the concessions we made with the Progressives. We received a revelation to the Church, accepted as such, with Joseph F. Smith. Not until about 70 years later from the 1906-1908 period did we receive our next accepted revelation with the blacks receiving the Priesthood in 1978. After 70 years the children of Israel were permitted to return to Jerusalem and rebuild their city. It took a while for them to migrate back, some not wanting to leave Babylon. Are we in such a trial period? Are we preferring to stay in Babylon?
I disagree with Anonymous’ statement “It is true that Doug is being called. So are you. Yes, I mean you.” A call from the Lord does not come from passion and motivational speaking. It comes as a result of understanding the light and knowledge associated with a call, which is not information appropriate for a blog. The thoughts here may be inspirational, and may lead one to seek for that call, but such a call comes not from the results of a servant’s work.
Remember D&C 11: “15 Behold, I command you that you need not suppose that you are called to preach until you are called.
16 Wait a little longer, until you shall have my word, my rock, my church, and my gospel, that you may know of a surety my doctrine.
17 And then, behold, according to your desires, yea, even according to your faith shall it be done unto you.”
In my opinion, the only thing possible for Denver to achieve on a blog is to help produce correct belief. Our emotions may react to such belief with such grandeur and excitement as to think we have more than what we have, but that is OK. These doctrines are joyful! However, remember that angels visit and product faith, but will only appear to those with a FIRM MIND in every form of godliness. I tried to outline that with Peter’s ladder in previous comments, but there hasn’t been any effort to find the correlating laws that produce the results in Peter’s ladder (at least not posted in the comments).
This isn’t to discourage, but to uplift, because after the emotions have worn off, there is usually an associated period of discouragement. That cycle can only be broken by a sound mind that calls forth a visit from angels so that confirmations begin to be more than just raw energy and emotion, but lead a person down the path towards a more sure word of prophecy.
I should correct myself a little and say I know Denver can at least achieve helping to produce correct belief in the way he described the Book of Mormon definitions earlier through a blog. I don’t know if he can achieve the definition for faith that requires being visited by an angel. For that he’d have to be a mortal angel and a blog would have to be able to be defined as a “visit” for those able to receive it as such. I don’t know if that is possible, but it could be.
Also in my example above, the waiting referred to is about a call to preach. The call to join the Church of the Firstborn may be earlier than a call to preach as a member of the Church of the Firstborn. It may not even be termed a call, but an invitation to join the Church of the Firstborn, and certainly Denver has tried to get us interested in that heavenly Church. Whether or not that constitutes an official invitation to individuals on this blog for them personally to join it in the near future (meaning a sign to them that they are invited) I don’t know.
So, I hope showing my ignorance puts my opinion in the last comment into context. I still hold out the possibilities that more can be done with a blog. I surely don’t know all the ways of the Lord, but my experience is more consistent with a steady, stable course, less influenced by flashes in the pan in terms of feelings.
Wow Denver!
Just re-read this today (Jul 31) as a reference to the word “whore” or “whoredoms” as used in 2 Nephi 28:15.
Suddenly this passage from Luke 16 (1-13) came into crystal clear focus. I had always wondered WHY the Lord “commended” the unjust steward (vs 8) (who would the stewards be in our day?) and WHY He told us to make to ourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness. Suddenly I understood that “the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light” (vs 8) because THEY at least follow their master (Satan) while the children of light do not follow their Master (Jesus).
It then becomes obvious WHY the Lord counsels THEM (the unjust stewards) to “Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, WHEN ye shall fail, they may receive you into everlasting (hellish) habitations.” (vs 9)
Jim