I’ve said several times in several ways that we have an obligation to support the church’s leaders and the programs of the church. I believe that with all my heart. The Lord is going to hold us all accountable. No one is going to be relieved from their respective responsibilities.
Pay tithes, attend your meetings. Keep a current temple recommend and use it. Serve when asked to do so. You will have a great influence on others for the good when you provide service. Not merely by what you say, but by the example you provide.
There is a great deal of unrest in the church. Oftentimes the result is inactivity. I believe that is a mistake. If all those who continued to care about the Gospel persisted in attending meetings and serving, it would do more to help the church than drifting into inactivity. Those who are sensitive to the troubles which beset the church need to be there, faithfully serving. If only those who are blinded to the troubles remain active, then the organization becomes narrower and narrower, less and less aware of its situation, and prone to continue in a course that will discard yet more of what matters most.
I wish I could inspire thousands of inactive Saints to return to activity. I know I have helped hundreds to return. Those who are most troubled are the ones who the church can use right now. Those who keenly sense that all is not well with Zion are the ones who need to be filling the pews. Until they fill the pews they won’t be filling the leadership positions. And until they fill the leadership positions, there won’t be any changes made to the course we are on at present.
If you love Zion and want her redemption, then serve her cause. Faithfully serve her cause. Don’t sever yourself from her.
There is no question the Lord will hold accountable those who are in leadership positions for every word, every thought, and every deed. (Alma 12: 14.) They aren’t spared. This is why we should pray for them, uphold them, and do what we can to relieve them of the terrible burdens and consequences of being accountable for their callings. (D&C 107: 22.)
When you withdraw from the church you cut yourself off from necessary ordinances, including the sacrament. You imperil your capacity to keep the Sabbath day holy. You limit your capacity to serve others. Even a bad lesson makes you consider what the teacher and manual is ignoring, misstating or mangling. You needn’t be argumentative or unpleasant. But by being there you have a time to reflect upon the subject being addressed by the class and to contemplate what that subject means to you. Use it meditatively and gratefully. It is a gift. If you see more clearly than others, then thank the Lord for that and stop being impatient with your fellow Saint.
You are a gift to the church. Your talents and your abilities belong to and were intended to be a part of the church. Serve there. Patiently and kindly. You needn’t start an argument in every class to make a difference. Quietly going about serving and occasionally providing a carefully chosen insight is important and will garner you far more blessings than withdrawing and letting your light grow dim.
We’re all in this together. This is our dispensation. You are responsible for helping it be preserved and passed along to the rising generation. Do not grow weary in this fight. We share a common enemy, and it is not the leadership of the church. It is the one who stirs people up to anger. (2 Ne. 28: 20.)
I’d like to open people’s eyes only so as to permit them to save their own souls and those of others. I would never want anyone to walk away from the church as a result of seeing its weaknesses. Be wise, but harmless. (Matt. 10: 16.) Be patient with anyone’s shortcomings, no matter whether they serve in the nursery or in the presidency of an organization.
Thank you. I sincerely appreciate those words today.
Thank you Denver!!! After the posts and reader comments of the last few days, I think this post and call to stand fast in the faith is crucial. Grateful that yo have turned so many back to the church and the ordinances that are so important. Wish you could help reactive my 22 year old. He would be one who would be a great leader. I pray for Him and wait upon the Lord’s timing.
As one who has officially left the church, and been told by God to return and serve meekly. I add my second witness Denver is correct and true. Coming back was essential.
Truthworks
Denver,
This is such a necessary and needful post for all of us to ponder and practice. It is much easier to find fault and condemn then to be patient and practice charity. Messengers come in all different kinds of shapes and forms and personalities. Thank you for delivering such thought provoking messages.
I believe Elder Eyring to be one of the Wheat in the twelve.
This comment from him is also applicable when we are tired of “Church” and our many cultural problems.
When I find myself drawn away from my priesthood duties by other interests and when my body begs for rest, I give to myself this rallying cry: “Remember Him.” The Lord is our perfect example of diligence in priesthood service. He is our captain. He called us. He goes before us. He chose us to follow Him and to bring others with us. This evening I remember Him, and it stirs my heart. This is the Saturday night before Easter Sunday, when we remember His Resurrection. I remember His example in the days before. Out of love for His Father and for us, He allowed Himself to suffer beyond the capacity of mortal man. He told us some of what that infinite sacrifice required of Him. You remember the words:“For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;“But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;“Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
“Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.”10
From the cross on Calvary, the Savior announced, “It is finished.”11 Then His spirit left His body, and His mortal remains were placed lovingly in a tomb. He taught us a lesson by what He did in three days in the spirit world, before His Resurrection, which I remember whenever I am tempted to feel that I have finished some hard task in His service and deserve a rest.The Savior’s example gives me courage to press on. His labors in mortality were finished, but He entered the spirit world determined to continue His glorious work to save souls. He organized the work of the faithful spirits to rescue those who could still be made partakers of the mercy made possible by His atoning sacrifice. ( Act in All Diligence , President Henry B. Eyring, April 2010 General Conference )
Amen Brother Snuffer. Well said. :)
Thank you.
Just to put some of your comment in perspective, I need to say this: when you attend and continue to be constructive and faithful–and you are effectively shunned–well, it’a hard to remain. Those people you mention, who are steadfast, strong but who recognize the perils that are increasing in the church are generally NOT called to any positions of authority. Those who say, “All is well in Zion” are called increasingly.
No, no, no, no, no. That’s not right. IF enough of those who have voted with their feet returned, and they filled the pews, it WOULD change. You add another 30% to 50% back in and they will outnumber the 30% who are there pretending to be content. You get the majority of those who are active in the church there, attending and speaking up and you will change the church in a fundamental way. I’m saying this is the cure to what ails the church itself. Then you’d have to call a different breed of leader to cope with the pews filled with people who know Zion is in disarray and that there are pretensions and foolishness going on. Imagine a Gospel Doctrine class with such a group in it! Imagine F&T! Glorious.
I remember on my mission I wrote back to my parents after visiting several inactives in a certain area… “The inactives are way cooler and more ‘with it’ than the active members at Church!”
This whole thing is going to be quite the shift. I’ve always felt for the “misfits” at Church… you know, the ones who haven’t been married to their high school sweetheart for 40 years and have perfectly groomed kids driving Escalades all showing up on Mother’s Day to parade in…
Thankfully I’m married to a man who can sniff out pretense like a bloodhound and he’s changed my paradigm in such a way that there is no turning back.
Excellent post. Again.
I’m curious what the major things these inactive members bring to a ward that the active members are lacking? Obviously, this will vary from ward to ward, but as a person who is active I’m interested in what specifically we’re lacking that the “inactives” add.
I ask this understanding that in general the difficulties currently in the church are outlined in other posts, in this case I’m specifically asking what is fixed and how with reactivation.
So stay with the org that has failed to maintain and restore the celestial laws that brings us the fulness of the Father, don’t worry about keeping the commandments restored to this dispensation? Do what the rest are doing and all is well?
DS: I’m hearing you preach publicly… would like to hear you speak plainly. If you have spent enough time with HIM, you will know that our org stopped listening intently to the Lord back when we decided to can His marriage system HE restored, the new and everlasting covenant of marriage in full.
I’ve already addressed this in Beloved Enos. Not going to repeat it here.
If the reference to “Beloved Enos” was in response to my question, thanks for the pointer. I’ve just put the order in.
Don’t publish, unless you want to: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700032512/President-Thomas-S-Monson-dedicates-Zions-Bank-Financial-Center.html?s_cid=rss-30
Also, what say ye of the City Creek speculative project south of the temple doors?
No, Ben, it was in response to those who want to continue to have plural marriage. I’ve spent some time explaining why they are in error in Beloved Enos, and am not going to take the subject up again here.
I was planning on addressing your question in another post. But it will come up in a few days, because my wife already has some stuff coming up first planned.
I’m so tired of men pining away for polygamy to return, pretending they want to live a higher law cuz they’re so awesome. Oh, I know, their wives want help with the dishes, too… everyone’s on board. I know, it’s all about caving in to the world… it’s just no fair I have to live in 2010… I just want to be more righteous than I already am… I don’t want to be lumped with the rejectors in the next life, I’ll do it right now!!! whine whine whine….
Amen, Sister!
I sense a hasty spirit here. DS, you condone it? Have you all studied the RESTORED GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST IN FULL (original restored christianity) and spent some time pondering and inquiring about it? Why was it restored so early? Why did our early leaders live it and were willing to die for it? Why was it lived just 100 yrs ago in the church, but not today? Why did Joseph and a select few live it for 20 yrs secretly? Why was it continued secretly by the Presidency and Apostles of the priesthood for another 20 yrs after the first manifesto? What about consecrating communities or all things in common. The blessings and uniting that these 2 laws will bring a people, will help them become a Zion people… blessings that automatically come to those who live these eternal truths. Who are the ones who have not done anything to plead with the governments to allow us to live original “mormonism”? Where is our opportuning at the feet of our governments? A simple reading of the Journal of Discourses, early leader and member journals and writings, and the Scriptures will show you the blessings of such system. Some of us want all celestial ways and orders available here. These are blessings and exaltations given to the most worthy families in the past, something that was had before, and restored in the Fulness of Times. Something we weren’t ready for because of unbelief and wanting to be more accepted by the world, but the Lord wanted us to receive it early anyway. Why? He intended for it to remain. Some of us want to have large families and posterity to enjoy the blessings here and hereafter. Again, those that fight against an eternal, celestial law… where will that leave such?
I guess I should have realized that the Amen comment was posted by sister snuffer:) I hear ya… it would be a hard law to live… but a very exalting and humbling one. I know it is a celstial social order, and the Lord would love to have His priesthood on earth enjoying and living it here as it is lived up there.
Pres Benson on LOC:
“Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the celestial kingdom” (D&C 105:5). Much has been written about this law and its attempted implementation in the early history of the Church; and much deception has taken root, even among some of our members, because of misinformed opinion or misguided interpretations. Some view it as merely an economic alternative to capitalism or the free enterprise system, others as an outgrowth of early communal experiments in America. Such a view is not only shortsighted but tends to diminish in importance a binding requirement for entrance into the celestial kingdom. The law of consecration is a celestial law, not an economic experiment.
http://www.templestudy.com/2008/11/29/living-the-law-of-consecration-part-2-the-law-the-united-order
When “Mormonism” finds favor with the wicked in this land, it will have gone into the shade; but until the power of the Priesthood is gone, “Mormonism” will never become popular with the wicked. (JD 4:38)
Pres. Brigham Young 1867 in the Tabernacle: JD Vol. 11 P. 301
http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/volume-11/
“I do not wonder at this people having trouble; I do not wonder at some of our sisters having sorrow in what is termed plural marriage; for they do not live so as to have the Spirit and power of God upon them; if they did, they would see its beauty and excellence, and not a word would be said against it from this time henceforth and forever. But they see this with a selfish eye, and say, ‘I want my glory and my comfort here,’ their eye is not on the resurrection and on the kingdom we are looking for when Jesus will come and reign King of nations as he does King of Saints.”
“We receive the priesthood and power and authority. If we make a bad use of the priesthood, do you not see that the day will come when God will reckon with us, and he will take it from us and give it to those who will make better use of it?” (Heber C. Kimball, Ibid., vol. 6, p. 125).
And when a person grows in the knowledge of the truth and advances to higher principles, he does not receive anything that contradicts any truth he had previously learned, for truth is never discordant with itself. Truth is eternal, truth is indestructible and never contradicts itself” Apostle Charles W. Penrose, Ibid., vol. 22, p. 69
Lorenzo Snow: “..Now, do you imagine that there would have been any wrong if the people wanted to find the principles of the higher law and obey them as near as circumstances would admit? Do you suppose it would have been wrong to search out the fulness of the Gospel, while living under the Mosaic law?”… JD Vol 19
For a man to lay down his all, his character and reputation, his honor, and applause, his good name among men, his houses, his lands, his brothers and sisters, his wife and children, and even his own life also — counting all things but filth and dross for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus Christ — requires more than mere belief or supposition that he is doing the will of God; but actual knowledge… where faith is weak the persons will not be able to contend against all the opposition, tribulations, and afflictions which they will have to encounter in order to be heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ Jesus; and they will grow weary in their minds, and the adversary will have power over them and destroy them. JS Jr Lectures on Faith
John Taylor: “What would be necessary to bring about the results nearest the hearts of the opponents of Mormonism? Simply to renounce, abrogate, or apostatize from the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage in its Fulness. Were the Church to do that as an entirety, God would reject the saints as a body. The authority of the priesthood would be withdrawn with its gifts and powers and there would be no more heavenly recognition of the administrations. The heavens would permananltly withdraw themselves, and the lord would raise up another people of greater valor and stability. For His work must, according to His unalterable decrees, go forward; for the time of the second coming of the Savior is near, even at the doors.” —Deseret News, 23 April 1885
October 6-7, 1884
John Taylor:
God has given us a revelation in regard to celestial marriage.. I did not make it. He has told us certain things pertaining to this matter, and they would like us to tone that principle down and change it and make it applicable to the views of the day. This we cannot do; nor can we interfere with any of the commands of God to meet the persuasions or behests of men. I cannot do it, and will not do it. I find some men try to twist round the principle in any way and every way they can. They want to sneak out of it in some way. Now God don’t want any kind of sycophancy like that. He expects that we will be true to Him, and to the principles He has developed, and to feel as Job did—”Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him.” Though other folks would slay us, yet we will trust in the living God and be true to our covenants and to our God. These are my feelings in relation to that matter. We have also been told that “it is not mete that men who will not abide my law shall preside over my Priesthood,” and yet some people would like very much to do it. Well, they cannot do it; because if we are here, as I said before, to do the will of our Father who sent us, and He has told us what to do, we will do it, in the name of Israel’s God—and all who sanction it say Amen—[the vast congregation responded with a loud “Amen.”]—and those that don’t may say what they please. [Laughter.] If God has introduced something for our glory and exaltation, we are not going to have that kicked over by any improper influence, either inside or outside of the Church of the living God. We will stand by the principles of eternal truth; living we will proclaim them, and dying we will be true to them, and after death will live again in their enjoyment in the eternal worlds. That is my feeling; so I don’t feel very trembly in the knees, and I do not think you do, generally. I see sometimes a disposition to try to ignore some of the laws which God has introduced, and this is one of them. People want to slip round a corner, or creep out in some way. There is something very creepy about it. (JD 25:309-10)
I admire Denver for the strength he has to endure some of the comments I read on this post. He truly practices with the best of intentions what is revealed in D&C 121:41-45. I perceive that some of you have deep wounds due to offense or strong disagreements. Peace be with you as it is in Christ. The Lord, even with all the failings of men in the Church, still recognizes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as His Church on earth, or else, the Spirit would not have literally and palpably converted my heart to this Church just 4 short years ago. It’s nice to see people asking questions and I again admire Denver for pointing everyone to the source, wanting everyone to go to the Lord in prayer, and not wanting to be the light himself.
To the previous two comments…having a gift bestowed upon you because you qualify is far more rewarding than taking it for yourself. The delay of a gift caused by the unreadiness of others secures higher gifts than what you talk about. The behavior suggested in your posts seems foreign to the Man whose Kingdom was not of this world who suffered death in meekness against the deprivations of His day. Remember in Isaiah it was the seven women who chose the man, and not the man who chose to seek out more women. That suggests they chose a certain type of man worthy of their attention, and were women of such stature that they could fend for themselves, as opposed to silly women laden with diverse lusts. Good luck with the whores of the daughters of Zion – it looks like their end is to stink and be bald, naked, and ashamed. It will be hard to support them then when their false charms are gone.
Anonymous:
Amen, Sister!
No. This was not posted by sister snuffer. This was posted by DS himself. If and when I post a comment it will say . . .
Posted by the CM (or goddess)
This man is NOT the least bit anxious to see plural marriage return. It would be an Abrahamic test for me. I would only practice it if commanded by the Lord. Meanwhile, it my belief that a prophet of the Lord suspended the practice for now…. to continue beating a dead horse seems unproductive and pointless. By the way, it is also my personal belief that when I knelt at an altar in the House of the Lord with my bride, that we entered into the celestial law of marriage.
:)
You did enter it… in part. According to our previous prophets. Of course it needs to be actually sealed by the Godhead for that sealing to be effective in and after the resurrection. Our sealings are a promise that one day based upon our faithfulness, we are both sealed up to eternal life with each other. You also covenanted to live all the laws of the restored gospel and to build up Zion on the earth. You call a celestial order lived by the Gods, and restored to this very church early on… a dead horse? Also, you probably should study all of the revelations given to John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff during the 1880’s, and search for the BYU professor’s research on the 220+ plural marriages that were authorized by the Presidency and Apostles after the 1890 manifesto/press release (not even called a revelation and doesn’t even mention the Lord in it and just says to not do PM’s within the USA). Much of our factual history has been swept under the rug. Seek and ye will find. I started my research and quest for truth to find out why we lived the celestial law of marriage in full then, and why we don’t now. I have been shown why… and this very blog of Denvers is more proof. We are not the celestial people that we think we are. We have not the love of the truth to even understand it or receive anything new, let alone pray to one day live what has already been restored. And I do mean all of the celestial orders and principles we were taught during the 1800’s and in our scriptures that we do not care to return to. I am not advocating living it right now. I am just helping others realize the truth, and the blessings that would come… that are predicated based upon our love and obedience to the celestial laws that our Gods live.
Another poster above is also right… finding one good wife is hard enough in todays world… let alone a few. Even harder would be to find a worthy man who 7 or so women would want to be part of His kingdom. Yes, these things are reserved for a pure and holy people… wish we were such.
After the tribulation and redemption of Zion, thanks to angels coming to set us back in full celestial order, at least those who will… these things will be had again. I will always defend the truth, even if I stand alone in it… even if the hard hearts in todays modern church don’t care to understand or love the truth of these celestial laws we seek to forget or are embarressed by. I preach the truth as I obtain it from our prophets who communed with the heavens. It is up to our church membership and leadership to seek it, love it, then go back to live the things already given us, things we have neglected or discarded. Or we can wait for the cleansing effect of tribulation and the fury of the Lord to turn us around, which more than likely will be necessary.
I’m just here to help others dig in and learn historical facts and the history of God’s dealings with the priesthood for 6,000 yrs. You’d think we’d get it after so long… :)
I’ve read all of it. Met with plural marriage advocates. Written about the subject (if you’d read what I’d written already you would know this). I am completely confident that the obligation to live plural marriage and the keys to do so are not available to volunteers or interlopers today. No one is authorized to undertake a practice, engage in conduct or strike out on their own, for now. The Lord’s House is a house of order.
Your confident? Did you inquire and get sure knowledge on the matter or are you going by your own confidence and perception? You were the one who said there are those with a fullness on the earth now… after replying to a comment discussing PM and LOC. Without these, we cannot build up a true zion.
Has anyone contemplated that you know a tree by its fruits? Has ANYONE actually LOOKED at the fruits of plural marriage? To me, it is an evil fruit of an evil tree. Its demoralization of women and glorification of men has reverberated and continues to reverberate negatively throughout the church. It haunts the church like a demon….as NOTHING else does. I believe that Joseph Smith was a man, with some failings as well as some gifts. (As we are ALL human.) This particular “revelation”, like some others of his that failed, might have been from himself. He might not have known it. But the God I worship would NEVER force anyone to obey a commandment, using a drawn sword. That seems rather satanic to me….force, remember?
Just something to consider.
There was an earlier post that said we should read pioneer journals and the scriptures to find what a great experience PM was. I’ve read thousands of pages of pioneer journals (some from family – never published and not available to the public) and I have yet to find examples where it was a positive experience. I’m just being honest. It was a test, a trial, a heartbreak. But maybe that was the point. Get the women’s affections off their husbands and onto the Lord. I don’t know.
Even the account of Abraham that everyone hearkens back to… what a disaster. Sarah lacked in faith so in desperation or hopelessness she tells herself the promise was really just to Abraham, not her. (That’s totally my own opinion.) Enter Hagar. Now Hagar’s pregnant and despises Sarah. Sarah whoops her and she leaves, then comes back… Ishmael grows up to be kind of a punk and mocks Isaac, etc. and that’s it. Hagar and Ishmaal and sent off permenantly, which God approves.
What a happy plural marriage family.
I don’t see the experience of Isaac living PM in the scriptures, but Jacob, being fooled into it was a good one. The favorite wife, the negotiations for sex, etc… That was great.
I’d like to be pointed to examples from scripture where it was a positive experience.
Personally, I don’t put much weight in post-Manifesto testimonials because I think they were haunted by-
“I lived this, I went through hell… for NOTHING?” and it was very difficult to swallow. Especially when you were taught it was necessary for salvation and that was the only way you were able to endure it. Then to hear, Oh, by the way, it’s not necessary… wow, what a blow.
Just a thought… Logistically in the Celestial Kindgdom if everyone is practicing plural marraige that would mean that there would have to be double the amount of women at the least. If every man had lets say 3 wives, 3x more women, then 4x,10x,26x, 100x, etc. Sorry this does not make sense to me.
Statistically the scientists say there are 105 boy babies for every 100 girl babies born. More boy babies die in infancy and childhood for many reasons. All possibly going to the Celestial Kingdom? How can there be that many more women? If this world is to be our Celestial Kingdom and The Celestial get to stay here, Where are all the women going to come from?
Will a man go there and find to his horror – A Sign ” Sorry – NO MORE WOMEN”
I suppose He could raise up women out of stones, just like John the Baptist suggested, if the need arose.